Visit the webpage for this Dialogue show, "Public Schools"
From Lori in Moscow:
In the teaching profession, we have to write goals and objectives that can be measured. We assess our students on their performance in our classes through many different assignments, activities, and tests so we can determine how much of the curriculum they are learning. We have data to support the grades our students earn. My question is where's the data to support the notion that Idaho has a lot of bad teachers in our state? If there is data, how was the data collected? Who collected and analyzed the data? Mr. Luna has remarked that he has been working on developing this plan for years. He's only been in office for a little less than a year. Again, where is his data to support such a drastic change for our state?
From Adam in Garden City:
How many new teachers do you estimate can be hired when you terminate the employment of one expensive teacher?
Since you indicated that you would not raise the state base salary for teachers, if an experienced, "good" teacher does not enter your proposed system, and that teacher does not receive your bonus based on ISAT scores, this would result in punishment of that "good" teacher by denying them a pay increase. Explain how this rewards such a "good" teacher.
Since no legal "property rights" are attached to Category 4 teachers, this opens the door for school boards to terminate the employment of teachers they find are too expensive, or bothersome. Since your due process clause has no legal validity, what is to prevent this from occurring?
Please clarify why your pay plan denies public school teachers the opportunity to collectively bargain for better pay from their employer.
By accepting your new pay system, teachers will receive annual bonuses that advance their pay and are cumulative. What is the maximum total salary that a teacher will earn in their career before their salary is capped, or the state legislature denies further funding.
Please clarify why your pay plan denies public school teachers the opportunity to collectively bargain for better pay from their employer.
From Ralph in Jerome:
How will giving up teachers' due process in exchange for extra pay increase a teacher's expertise? This is conjecture on your part. To me, as a retired Idaho teacher, it is a backdoor approach to do away with tenure, one that is conceivably insulting.
From Valerie in Post Falls:
I have read what has been made available to the public concerning your merit pay schedule. If teachers are to be given merit pay for higher scores, how are you going to set that up? You know that teachers
That have students who are considered AT RISK (low income, special education, title service, etc.) are working harder than teachers who do not have students with any of these special classifications. The community of education has been one where we need to work together. Merit pay will only break up that community. Merit pay is not in the best interest of Idaho's teachers, but most importantly Idaho's children.
From Anonymous:
I am a Language Arts teacher at one of Boise's junior high schools. I love working with my students. I am concerned about Mr. Luna's pay plan, however, because of the imbalance within the teaching profession and the fairness of the plan.
First - I have NO accelerated students, only English students in a modified program or in special education. There is a teacher who has multiple accelerated classes, plus a class who actually interview for a class which targets underperforming students. Hard to believe there is a class that you have to get into via interview.
Additionally - in a six-period teaching day, I have been given four separate and unique subject(s)/group(s) to teach, which means a lot. No only am I accountable for students becoming proficient in Reading and Language, I have a multitude of programs and areas to hit. This is exhausting work. Don't get me wrong, I love my students, but the workload is off. By comparison, there are social studies teachers in my building who have NO accountability (i.e. ISAT testing) and only one subject/grade/level to teach.
I think our programs are way too complicated and that some teachers are working at a much greater effort than others day-to-day. Also, many are not made accountable by state-run standardized testing. How do they fare in the pay analysis?
I hope this points out the irregularities working within our schools. I don't think Mr. Luna knows much about teaching.
From Merrianne:
Has the state ever considered requiring proficiency for students to pass to the next grade?
While teachers are doing everything they know to do to motivate, inspire, and teach the academics, there are students who click through the ISAT test and finish a 90 minute test in 30 minutes or less. Often these students have not even read the questions thoroughly, let alone the passage being tested. There is NO consequence for these students or their parents. It is always the teachers who are held accountable. There are states who do require proficiency as a requisite to passing.
From Stephanie in Moscow:
Mr. Luna, will this plan cause teacher pay to fluctuate from year to year? For example, if the school made AYP one year and all the teachers' pay increased, but the following year the school did not make AYP, would the teachers' pay decrease?
If teacher pay does not decrease at any point, how will the state of Idaho afford to pay teachers as they acquire more education and leadership opportunities?
From Lois in Midvale:
One of the biggest problems in education is the huge bureaucracy at the state level. How can this plan do anything but create more paperwork for educators and less time for teaching?
From Jerry in Meridian:
The Lexiile score, an index to reading ability, is a highly useful tool which was reported in the earlier ISAT tests. What is the plan to get Lexile scores from the new testing company? The students really found it helpful.
From Jan in Meridian:
A few questions for Supt. Luna about the I-STARS proposal for teacher pay:
Why is the program coupled with the loss of continuing contract?
Isn't extra teacher pay a local control issue? Should Idaho go the way of Denver where the people actually had the opportunity to vote on raising local taxes to pay for the increases?
Basing school performance on ISAT scores for the entire school - this seems to favor schools that have very few of the subgroups that typically score lower, i.e. schools with subgroups of LEP student or students with disabilities, how do you propose to level the playing field among schools that serve vastly different populations?
Basing school performance on ISAT scores for the entire school - smaller schools with fewer students or schools where the student body studies a specific curriculum, i.e. a charter school with a college prep curriculum, tend to be able to increase scores more readily than a large school with a diverse student body of 2,200 student, how do you propose to account for the variables? (see Alaska and Florida merit pay results).
So much of the proposal is based on students doing well on the ISAT. Why would a teacher do anything other than teach to that test?
Since there is a zero percent chance that the imposed NCLB target (100% of all students reaching the proficiency level by 2014) will be met the schools in the top quartiles will be failing schools - schools that didn't make AYP - should extra compensation be given to failing schools?
If all the public schools in Idaho boycotted the Spring ISAT what would be the overall cost savings?
I live in a district that constantly opens new schools. How is school improvement measured for a new school and why would any teacher want to sign up to teach in a newly formed school as opposed to a school that has an established track record of scoring in the upper quartiles?
From Cara in Star:
Do you really believe that the teachers would actually give up their due process and teach without a contract for a mere $2400.00 per year? I think that our right to due process and our contract is worth much more than that. Giving up our contract and due process should have nothing to do with student performance.
From Debbie in Kimberly:
If there is money to support this pay plan in the budget now, what has been holding back a cost of living raise for teachers the last 5 years?
Once you earn the proposed raise will your salary stay the same the next year or will you lose it if you school does not make AYP?
From Deb in Pocatello:
After reading the information about the IStar's plan, I am concerned about what happens to the Alternative School Teachers, who are working with the most at risk students in the district.What happens to the pay for those teachers who will probably never see a 25%, much less 50% of the students making yearly progress on the ISATs. Are they to be discriminated against in pay because those students have a more difficult time in the educational process.
From Beverly in Pocatello:
Mr. Luna, why do you feel so strongly that significant salary increases for teachers should only apply if a teacher gives up due process rights? I have noticed that principals in my district do not have these rights, and when they have gotten on the wrong side of district administrators, (usually by standing up for teachers), they have been summarily fired or reassigned. Why would you want teachers to be vulnerable to such subjective treatment?
From Ninna in Meridian:
How are the needs for the gifted students being met with the policy of "No student left behind"? The classroom is teaching to the middle and bottom students and the gifted students are getting held back from reaching their potential as the idea of "no skipping grades" is being enforced.
From Jerry in Cottonwood:
1.) Could you please explain to any current or prospective teacher why they should give up their due process rights, thus making them at will employees who can be replaced by school boards who have no professional expertise in evaluating and judging their effectiveness as a teacher? Why not just apply across state lines and get the best of both worlds - a pay increase and keep your due process. If you truly want to compete with neighboring states that pay more then why don't you present a package that is comparable to those states instead of one that ties a pay increases to giving up due process - something those other states don't do but still provide higher wages?
2.) It seems that by tying a pay increase to due process you are more concerned with doing away with IEA than truly increasing teachers pay in the state of Idaho.
From Jamie in Boise:
What do you suggest we do when the best of teachers, who tries every possible avenue to motivate students, bends over backwards to accommodate special needs, and spends hours planning and grading, fails because of the choices STUDENTS make?
The inherent flaw with a teacher performance based pay plan is that we as teachers can only do so much to propel our students toward success, in the end, the choice is theirs.
From Pam in Meridian:
Why are librarians not included in your $350 supply fund? As a librarian I am teaching most of the day whether it is in classrooms or in the media center. I need funds for books, magazines and other teaching supplies. I strongly suggest you look at this and would like to know why you made this decision.
From Amy in Meridian:
How will your proposals work for teachers who teach more than one subject in different buildings? And if the teacher teaches 9-12 in one building but K-4 in another, will the pay increases be cut in half?
If teachers are to be paid by student achievement, how will you make that equitable. For example, I teach in a school that not only has the highest percentage of special education students in the state, but also a very high percentage of lower income students. How can my students achievement be compared to another teacher's students that have very different backgrounds? What's more, how can I fairly "compete" with other schools and teachers for this bonus when I don't have enough text books for my students or enough computers to use any type of technology in teaching?
From Joan in the Lemhi District:
If teachers were to adopt the contact procedure like administrators, would they also have the option of continuing contracts on two, three and five years basis like administrators do?
From Nancy in Post Falls:
How will your pay scale affect specialist teachers in the system? In music I teach critical thinking, history, decoding, fractions as well as other math thought problems, reading and creativity. If teachers are given a bonus because "their children" succeed how you do determine which teacher is responsible? Could the success be because of the title teacher, special education teacher, the teacher they had last year, or some other specialist? Can you truly say that the child's failure to progress is because of one teacher? Perhaps they are not progressing because of a divorce, illness, move, or death in the family. In our school we work together and put the child first. Your plan seems to put the teacher first. Your plan seems to encourage teacher competition rather than cooperation. It seems divisive.
From Bill in Nampa:
What would be the savings to the taxpayers if Liberty Charter School and Victory Charter School, which are 600 feet apart, if consolidated? Both Harbor schools are clones of each other. Wouldn't you propose consolidation and return the savings to the taxpayers?
Your plan to pay teachers more IF they give up their tenure, isn't that a bribe to give up job security? Have you thought of possible lawsuits from teachers if they refuse to give up tenure and are penalized for the bonus payment?
From Leslie in Fruitland:
In your new plan you are wanting to reward teachers based on their ISAT tests. How will you reward teachers that do not give ISAT tests - i.e., PE, Music, Kindergarten, 1st and 2nd grade teachers, 9th grade teachers? Also, how will you reward the HS algebra teachers for having great test results when 9 to 10 years of good teaching helped those algebra students do well on their ISATS?
From Bekki in Blackfoot:
How does the iSTARS pay plan address non-certificated employees? How does Mr. Luna plan on addressing non-certificated employees if iSTARS does not address them?
How does the iSTARS pay plan compare to other states' pay plans?
What feedback has Mr. Luna received from the IEA regarding iSTARS?
Thank you Marcia Franklin and all the staff at Dialogue!
From Travis in Vallivue:
I am wondering if Mr. Luna could tell us how his experience as a professional educator in Idaho schools informs his decision making as State Superintendent of Public Instruction in the great state of Idaho.
I am wondering why Mr. Luna is essentially advocating for "the business model approach" to public education, that is, specifically giving raises to teachers who have students who perform better, just as an employee of a company would receive raises for performing better at work?
In this same vein, I am wondering if Mr. Luna realizes what would actually happen in Idaho schools if this new teacher pay approach were actually implemented. How does Mr. Luna plan to account for diverse classrooms, where we have students with Individual Education Plans (IEPs), 504 plans, who are emerging English speakers, or who are students that flat out just don't care about the classroom, the subject matter, or anything else? This is a nuts and bolts question. How would teachers be fairly and equitably held to account for the learning of students who are influenced by so many other factors outside the doors and windows of their classroom? Teachers will flee the poorly performing schools for a few high-performing schools, or other states, and we have enough of a teacher shortage as it is.
As a teacher, I believe improvements need to be made in public education, but not at the expense of due process of a teacher's grievance(s), or grievances against her/him. Does Mr. Luna not understand the politics of education? As I understand Mr. Luna's new proposal, if one angry parent gets mad, and approaches their "friend," who might happen to work on an Idaho school board somewhere, a teacher could potentially get fired because of one frustrated parent.
I work with 165 students a day. Assuming every student has at least two parents, that's at least 330 parents that I deal with, not including step-parents. So, I need to keep well over 300 parents from being frustrated about their student's grade, or whatever, or I could, potentially, in the scenario I just created, be fired? Where is the equity in this very likely scenario Mr. Luna?
From Jolene in Fruitland:
I would like to know about how Mr. Luna expects to address two things:
1. Those who teach in fields not immediately affected by ISATS such as fields in Preschool, Technology, Special Education, P.E. Music, etc.
2. What about all those who are so instrumental in making our children successful, such as our paraprofessionals, consulting teachers, etc.
Teaching is not a one man/woman job, and it takes a whole team to make success happen. I am also concerned about giving up our rights. Tenure is not really for poor teachers, because they can be dealt with, but tenure for me is security that I need to feel safe from political unfairness.
From Henry in Coeur d'Alene:
I teach PE at Lake City HS, and have over 250 students every two days in a block schedule. It takes me 4 hours to do grades and hours of prep every day. I have been teaching PE and coaching football for 35 years, and because of that experience, these classes run like a top and we play for the championship in football every other year. I have written a book on offensive football that has sold over 2,000 copies. Way more than any English teacher whatever. So, my question is: because my curriculum does not include ISAT testing, I cannot qualify for any merit raise, while teachers that teach the AP courses with less than 20 kids in class can. If that is the case then this Merit pay business is seriously flawed.
Include total number of kids you teach into Merit pay, like the state of Washington does, and I'm all for this merit pay. My job is way tougher than classes with less than 20. So how bout an answer for that??
Personally, Idaho is last in every category educationally in the country. No other state has merit pay, none.
This is another convenient excuse for Idaho legislators to deny education any more $ for pay raises than they have to.
From Sandra:
How long would the teachers that stay on the old salary schedule get to stay there?
When will we be forced to move to the new one?
The endorsement perks would be good if you were a science teacher and had a different endorsement for biology, chemistry, physical science, physics, etc. Whereas in math, I teach pre-algebra, algebra, algebra 2, geometry, pre-calculus, and calculus and have only one endorsement. The cost for getting more endorsements is huge compared to what you would receive in return.
Then the extra time put in for extra duties: the 30% of the people that kiss the best @!@!! will be the winner of that perk.
From Joanne in Emmett:
Throughout my entire career every time the legislature has tinkered with our pay, I have been hurt (One example: when the state established the pay scale, no credits earned before one's certification counted so I, having two years of post-graduate studies, was instantly knocked backward three columns on the salary chart). I have constantly worked to improve my teaching, the school I work for, and my knowledge in my teaching area. I have an MA in English (In fact, I have 150 English credits, every one of which helps me be a better teacher), I am the only teacher in our high school approved by the College Board to teach Advanced Placement courses, I teach two dual enrollment classes, and my students regularly get accepted into selective colleges and give me the credit for their success. I've been a Presidential Scholar Teacher. I work on committees, school improvement plans, and curriculum. I help with extracurricular activities, and I work 50 to 60 hours a week planning, teaching, and grading. Yet, I find nothing in Luna's plan that would reward my work. I think it's bunk and suspect ulterior motives.
From NW Professional Educators:
Across the country, teacher certification standards and teacher evaluations are instituting dispositions theory to determine whether a student or teacher exhibits a "proper understanding" of the complexities of race, power, gender, class, sexual orientation and privilege in American society--an understanding which comes from a politically liberal point of view.
This theory places college of education students and teachers with traditional, mainstream religious and conservative political views in jeopardy as they increasingly find themselves evaluated as unfit to be in the classroom.
To what extent has Idaho instituted dispositions theory and how can the Department ensure that teachers do not have to pass a "political test" in order to be hired or retained as an effective teacher in Idaho's public schools?